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Tunisian gauge
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BetwixtTheStitch message #1
Tunisian gauge
September 23, 2013 at 9:30:56 AM
 
Melanie,
First thing, I absolutely would love to collaborate on converting knit to tunisian.

On the question of gauge, we know gauge can be greatly affected by our own tension, etc.
For example, I've been making tight stitches on the toys with sc the same height and width.

On the sweater I've been working on, the yarn recommends 5mm (H) hook or needle (Cool to get a swatch 18.5 st x 24 r = 4x4

I'm using a 6.5mm (K) hook and tunisian knit to get 18 st x 20 r , so my stitches are a bit shorter than standard knit, and taller than standard crochet. As well as slightly taller than they are wide.

What has been your experience with the gauge?







Sherry


 
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Stitchboard Admin message #2
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 23, 2013 at 2:05:20 PM  (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #1)
 
Sherry,

Excellent!  Smile  Do you have any ideas in particular for a first project?  I'd suggest something fairly simple and straightforward to start with...always time to get more complex down the line.  Smile  Maybe a simple neck scarf or something?

How are you getting such wonderfully "square" crochet stitches?  I've never been able to master that!

Okay, so I'm not understanding the gauge you're getting...at 18 sts x 20 rows, wouldn't the stitches be wider than tall?  If they're shorter than a knit stitch, I would guess they're wider than tall?  LOL, please forgive me...it's very hard to picture!

Argh, I went searching through my needles/hooks to see what survived of my Tunisian hooks, and not a single one did...apparently they all bit it in the flood.  Cry  So I can't do any swatching until I replace at least one.

Not surprising news, but in the back of my mind, there was a small hope that one measly Tunisian hook survived.  The main problem with the things that got flooded was how the caps of the hooks rusted, as they're probably made of stainless steel, not aluminum.  (Guessing steel needles and hooks are made of aluminum...who would ever think to ask what they're made of?  LOL, you get a hook or needle, you work with it, that's that!)

I had a really great setup with my hooks/needles.  They were in one of those decorative popcorn tins (being about the only thing that was tall enough to hold those longer Tunisian hooks and knitting needles!) and the flood waters seeped in through the bottom...those things are definitely not made to get wet, sigh.  So the hooks/needles were sitting in 2-3" of rusty popcorn tin water.

If the local Walmart or JoAnn Fabrics don't carry Tunisian hooks, I'm not sure what I'll do.  Our only LYS closed up a few years ago.  Cry



Melanie  (cat slave and Official Feline Can Opener) =^.^=
~~~~~
I'm a beading, knitting and crochet addict.  If that means I'm admitting I have a problem, then I admit to nothing. Please refrain from helping me.


 
Member since:
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BetwixtTheStitch message #3
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 24, 2013 at 8:17:14 AM  (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #2)
 
Oh Melanie, I'm sorry about your hooks. My hooks have survived several cross country moves (most of them), but I've not had to contend with a disaster.
I did recently have to replace some that I lost somewhere along the way, and found that none of the big box stores in my area carry afghan hooks, and no Boye hooks of any kind.

Simplicity and Herrschnerr's both carry a nice selection.

You're right about the stitches being wider, of course Embarassed.  Just goes to show I shouldn't think before I've had my full dose of caffeine. You'll have to keep an eye on me with math anyway, I have to check and double check.

I was thinking a simple scarf pattern would be a perfect place to start. We can wait til you have a chance to replace your hooks. That gives me time to finish up some other projects.

About my "square" sc, I'm not sure how I got there except that when I was a child I worked hard to keep my stitches neat and even. Found a way to wrap the yarn around my fingers so that I had complete control over it, and using my fingers to control my working piece as well.
All of that being said, I'm not sure it's a "good" thing either. Most of the patterns I've seen have a gauge with wider stitches. I have to make adjustments, and measure, measure, measure.


Sherry


 
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Stitchboard Admin message #4
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 24, 2013 at 4:42:24 PM  (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #3)
 
Sherry,

Thank you...I know you understand...things like crochet hooks should last pretty much forever, so a one-time purchase is all one really expects to buy...argh, not so in this case.  Cry

I'm glad your hooks have survived all of those moves!  And I'm sorry some got lost on the way...groan.  Frown

I also mentioned in my other response what happened at JoAnn's...not a single afghan hook to be found at all, and Michael's had a selection of one size H afghan hook...one hook in the entire store!  Either they keep selling out of that one size hook or they only keep one on hand at a time!  So disappointing.  Frown

I haven't tried mail order at all...it's the shipping that's so daunting.

No worries...I'm the same about math!  Bleh, I never like to figure things, and making patterns can require a lot of math...I'd rather swatch then crunch numbers...and I hate swatching!

Whenever you're ready would be fantastic...I have one hook now, so I can't go smaller or larger with hook/gauge sizes, though I'm going to do a little experimenting with gauge/stitches once I buy a skein of yarn.  Anyway, take your time...I'm not going anywhere!  Smile  Your WIPs are more important!

For working written patterns, I can see where your square stitches might be a problem.  Tongue Out  Can you basically adjust the row counts and work by the pattern's stitch count instead?  At least the advantage there is many crochet (and knitting) patterns say to work until a piece measures X inches, so as long as your stitch width is correct, you can simply work to the correct length for the piece, knowing you'll have a different number of rows than other people who might make the pattern with the exact gauge.  Stitch gauges aren't an exact science, anyway (though we treat them as such!).

At least you measure and make swatches!  When I first started crocheting, I didn't know anything about gauges.  I'm surprised most of the things I made fit!  It was an absolute coincidence.  And many people make that same mistake when they start out...they don't realize how important gauge is and think if they use the recommended hook and yarn, everything will be fine.

It's a shame you can't teach your square stich "technique"...but it sounds like it's more of a way of crocheting than an actual technique.  I wonder, though...maybe there's some way of using what you do for...something different...detailed afghans, perhaps?  Not sure...just a thought!  Smile


Melanie  (cat slave and Official Feline Can Opener) =^.^=
~~~~~
I'm a beading, knitting and crochet addict.  If that means I'm admitting I have a problem, then I admit to nothing. Please refrain from helping me.


 
Member since:
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Posts: 559
BetwixtTheStitch message #5
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 25, 2013 at 8:42:21 AM  (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #4)
 
Melanie,
I used to be skeptical about mail order as well, and you do have to read the shipping policies.
Joanne's shipping prices are outrageous. However Simplicity and Herschnerr's charge by what it actually costs them to ship. Simplicity ships faster than Herschnerr's.

With an H hook, we should probably use a thinner yarn. Possibly a sock yarn?

I do show my students how I do it (I also hold my hook from under it, like a pencil),
but I let them know that ultimately they have to find what works best for them. This is an art, not a science.

This is why I thought I should focus on creating patterns in which gauge isn't so important.

I'm really hoping that the updates in the pattern wizard will make an afghan pattern easier to follow.
One of my ideas includes a tree and some celtic knotwork that I think would "pop" a bit more with cableing .Smile


Sherry


 
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Stitchboard Admin message #6
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 25, 2013 at 6:56:15 PM  (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #5)
 
Sherry,

Thanks for letting me know about Simplicity and Herschnerr's...their shipping policies are definitely reasonable!  Smile  Reminds me of our wonderful friend, Cindy, of http://beadlady.biz - she also charges exact shipping.  Smile

It only makes sense not to soak customers for shipping!  It alienates people and is so unnecessary.  Frown

I'm going to have to tough through worsted weight acrylic...I don't have access to sport weight yarns anymore.  Walmart used to carry them, but no longer.  Frown  They're doing a store remodel at the moment.  I just missed the clearance sale on acrylic.  They've also limited the number of colors.  They used to have a lot of them, but they decided to bring back the fabric area.  ARGH.  They had a fabric area, but a number of years ago, you may remember when there was a big petition to Walmart not to cut down their craft departments.  For a while, it looked like they were listening.  Then the other shoe dropped.  They got rid of the fabrics from our Walmart...increased some of the other areas, decreased the yarn tools, increased the supply of Red Heart and Vanna's Choice yarns.  It may have been back then that they got rid of the sport yarn.  Frown

I guess they ultimately realized the things they were trying to sell weren't as popular as the things they used to sell (such as the fabrics)!

I love the idea of patterns where gauge isn't important!  Great idea!

Please let me know if you're having any difficulty with the Free Pattern Wizard patterns...LOL, I have a bit of pull with the programmer Wink and can make some recommendations.  Smile

Ooh, Celtic knotwork is amazing...done with cabling, that's going to be stunning!  Can't wait to see what you accomplish!  Smile


Melanie  (cat slave and Official Feline Can Opener) =^.^=
~~~~~
I'm a beading, knitting and crochet addict.  If that means I'm admitting I have a problem, then I admit to nothing. Please refrain from helping me.


 
Member since:
Jul 3, 2013
Posts: 559
BetwixtTheStitch message #7
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 26, 2013 at 9:32:30 AM  (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #6)
 
Melanie,
I have lots of acrylic worsted on hand.
Should we work the same pattern with different hook sizes and compare? Same pattern with different yarn weights?

I do remember when walmart started removing it's craft section, they were the only store that could compete with Hancock on fabric prices. Now my sewing machine sits in a closet, fabrics and patterns have skyrocketed to the point that sewing doesn't make sense to me anymore.
It's interesting to me that I'm seeing a huge upsurge in people who want to learn crochet and knit, yet the big box stores seem to be unaware that we want more selection.

I did post something in the discussion section on the pattern wizard, just not sure if it made sense.
It seems to me that for an afghan pattern having 60 or 80 stitches across on each page would be much easier than 30, requiring less flipping back and forth through the pages. If the pages were in landscape instead of portrait, they would still be big enough to see.
This is just how I would want a pattern I was trying to sell, so I would even be willing to pay a small per usage fee for it Wink.


Sherry


 
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Stitchboard Admin message #8
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 26, 2013 at 6:10:49 PM  (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #7)
 
Sherry,

We could try the same pattern with different yarns/hook sizes...I'm kind of guessing that even if we were to both use worsted weight and you were to use your K hook and I used my H hook, we'd probably get far different results!  I'm also thinking it should be a neck scarf or small cowl.  Maybe if it's a neck scarf, it could be something that buttons (?) so we're dealing with a one-to-one conversion of an actual knitting pattern, a straightforward one, where we don't have to do any fancy stitches (just straight TKS).  Your thoughts?  Smile  The way I'm thinking of it, we can always get fancier down the line.

It's awful with the big box stores.  Walmart at least used to be somewhat competitive, even with the limited amount of space they had.  Then they sized down the more competitive needlework items (or got rid of them altogether) and most of their stores were left with limited choices.  For instance, I tried to find a certain size circular knitting needle at Walmart a few months ago, before they started the latest remodel...they had two sizes...that was it.  Frown

I haven't really checked out the "new" section closely, but I'm guessing there's even less selection of tools now.  The yarn was definitely downsized...and to that was added a lot of specialty stuff, which I will probably never buy.  Why would I?  If I want it, I can get it from Michael's or JoAnn's with a 40% off coupon, instead of full price at Walmart.  I wonder if they've even thought of that.  How can they expect to compete?  I would think they'd stick with the things they can offer at reasonable prices, not the things they can sell at premium prices, with which they're competing with other big box stores.  The only time they're not competing is when someone might need something in a pinch, at midnight or 2am or sometime when a big box store isn't open.

I guess it depends on the store's buyer.  I don't know what they're thinking.  I remember several years ago, I complained to my local store because the grocery buyer chose to get rid of all of the packages of only low-fat chocolate ice cream sandwiches and replace them with all vanilla in the one brand and an all-vanilla plus a vanilla/chocolate combo pack in another brand.  So if you wanted vanilla...you could have your choice of two brands.  If you wanted all chocolate...sorry, either buy the combo pack and suffer through the vanilla if you don't like it, or don't buy it at all.  Frown

If I were the buyer, I would have replaced the vanilla in one of the brands with all chocolate.

Anyway, that's kind of the idea I'm getting now from the "new" craft department.  Just a guess that the buyer has decided to offer more interesting yarn choices, without thinking of how they're competing with the big box stores and those 40% off coupons.

Ah, I see what you're saying!  Smile  I haven't managed to get to your post about the Free Pattern Wizard yet, but I'll also mention it to that person with whom I might have a bit of pull.  Wink  Seriously, we want to do whatever is best for everyone...though we also want to be sure the patterns will be readable, of course!  Smile


Melanie  (cat slave and Official Feline Can Opener) =^.^=
~~~~~
I'm a beading, knitting and crochet addict.  If that means I'm admitting I have a problem, then I admit to nothing. Please refrain from helping me.


 
Member since:
Jul 1, 2009
Posts: 795
Stitchboard Support message #9
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 26, 2013 at 10:20:45 PM  (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #7)
 
Sherry,

Quote:
It seems to me that for an afghan pattern having 60 or 80 stitches across on each page would be much easier than 30, requiring less flipping back and forth through the pages. If the pages were in landscape instead of portrait, they would still be big enough to see.


I'll think about this.  I can certainly have the PatternWizard output the .pdf in landscape and can adjust the number of stitches per page.  Give me a bit of time and I'll see if it's a function I can add when I have time.  Just not sure how soon I'll get to it.  Probably sometime in October once the new Stitchboard area is enabled.

Terry


“If you can dream it, you can do it.
Tom Fitzgerald


 
Member since:
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BetwixtTheStitch message #10
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 27, 2013 at 8:45:58 AM  (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #8)
 
Yes Melanie, a simple TKS, one for one stitch, I think would be best to start. I can go up or down in hook sizes to see what I have to do to get close to the pattern gauge.
The simpler the better, to start with Smile. I've looked a bit for simple patterns, however I've never been crazy about knitting and haven't done any in too many years so I'd rather  have you choose one.

I pretty much avoid Walmart anymore even though it's closest to me. I don't mind driving farther if it means finding what I want.


Sherry


 
Member since:
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Posts: 559
BetwixtTheStitch message #11
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 27, 2013 at 8:48:34 AM  (in response to Stitchboard Support message #9)
 
Terry,
Thank you. I knew you were going to be working on some things next month and this is what I would be hoping for.


Sherry


 
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Stitchboard Admin message #12
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 27, 2013 at 2:25:38 PM  (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #10)
 
Sherry,

GMTA (Great Minds Think Alike)!  Smile  Do you think you can get close to a one-to-one stitch?  I'm hoping I can!

I'll take a look and see what's available.  Probably will look for something free online, maybe a beginner knitted scarf/neck warmer/whatever, LOL.  I have a few favorite sites for freebies...someone should have something!  Smile  I'm also keeping my mind open for something unexpected that looks simple, such as a one-piece purse.  Smile

On the bright side, JoAnn's and Michael's are pretty close to each other (and to Walmart).  But I only go to those stores when I have a coupon or a great need for something, like a certain kind of needle/hook.  The not-so-good part is that even though they're all near each other, they're not very close by, so it's a hassle just to get there.  And with the price of gas being so expensive, we try to do everything at once.  So when we do our grocery shopping, we go to Walmart, because it's the least expensive.  I admit, Walmart has come in handy here and there for craft items, like a month or two ago, when I needed to make some coasters for a wedding gift.  I also like that if we were to be there during odd hours (2am, LOL), I can technically grab what I need from Walmart, like a skein of yarn or some crochet hook/knitting needle.

I do wish there were other options, though.

Just a thought...I've seen patterns for fingerless gloves and there's also a pattern for a bunny (and perhaps also a teddy bear), which make use of a pretty straightforward simple straight knitted piece.  If I can find one of them, what would you think of something like that?  Smile  Or do you think that would kind of defeat the purpose, since they'd be "joined" together?


Melanie  (cat slave and Official Feline Can Opener) =^.^=
~~~~~
I'm a beading, knitting and crochet addict.  If that means I'm admitting I have a problem, then I admit to nothing. Please refrain from helping me.


 
Member since:
Jul 3, 2013
Posts: 559
BetwixtTheStitch message #13
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 28, 2013 at 9:34:50 AM  (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #12)
 
Melanie,
I can get close to one for one in stitches across, but may have to add rows. I'll work some swatches with different sizes once we have a pattern.

I love the idea of working on something like the fingerless gloves (have been looking for a pattern to make some for my son), or the toys, or even a purse. Smile

It would be hard for me to resist changing a glove pattern to something I could work in rounds, but I would for the first one anyway Embarassed.

I don't think joining would defeat the purpose, all the conversion work would be done prior to the joining Wink.


Sherry


 
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Stitchboard Admin message #14
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 28, 2013 at 6:28:25 PM  (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #13)
 
Sherry,

I think adding rows is going to have to naturally occur no matter what.  I simply don't see how we'll be able to get a realistic "knit" sized stitch.  And like you said, this is an art, not a science, so let's not be bothered about it, okay?  Smile  Let's simply enjoy!

I have to find the fingerless glove pattern (and any of the patterns I mentioned) again.  Hopefully can remember where to find them (or will find them with a simple search!).  In all cases, they were simple knit squares or rectangles.  The way I see it, starting with the simplest thing of all can then lead to patterns with increases, decreases, perhaps lace patterns...I would say even if what's out there isn't stockinette in knitting, pfft, do we really care?  It's the end result that counts...as long as we're happy with it, like a substitute of TKS for a fancy lace stitch or whatever!  Smile  Anyway, I'm guessing the simple patterns will be a no-brainer, just stitching to width with gauge and to size with measurements, but IMO, better to start small than to start too discouraginginly large.  Smile

I understand...I like the idea of working in the round!  LOL, question...how do you work in the round with an afghan hook?  Is it possible?

The only way I can think to do that is to "catch" a joining stitch on the end, where it wouldn't actually be a stitch on the needle.  But then...how would that work?  The "fabric" has to be kept flat.  That would require a flexible needle (I don't have one, nor can I get one in this yarn shop desert!).  Yeesh.  Guessing anything I'd want to do in the round would have to be done as a couple of flat pieces.  (Yes, I prefer anything in the round, too.  I despise seaming!)

You're right...we'd have to have conversions done before joining!  Smile

Okay, I'll start looking for those patterns now...but keep in mind that when I actually find any of them, it will be perfectly fine to wait until you have time for working on this...it's definitely not a priority!  Smile


Melanie  (cat slave and Official Feline Can Opener) =^.^=
~~~~~
I'm a beading, knitting and crochet addict.  If that means I'm admitting I have a problem, then I admit to nothing. Please refrain from helping me.


 
Member since:
Jul 3, 2013
Posts: 559
BetwixtTheStitch message #15
Re: Tunisian gauge
September 29, 2013 at 8:57:51 AM  (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #14)
 
Melanie,
Absolutely it's about having fun and seeing where it will take us. Laughing

About the tunisian in the round, I have a few double ended hooks. You work with 2 balls of yarn.
The first pass is worked in the normal way from one ball as far as you can go. The loops are then slid to the other end, picking up yarn from the second ball, you work the return pass in the same direction as the first.
There may be another way, but I don't know it.
I work in continuous rounds, using a marker for the beginning of the round.

I'd like to be able to teach it, but given the lack of availability of the hooks, I'm still thinking on how it might be possible to do it without the double ended.

I have a couple of flexible hooks, so now I'm thinking about seeing if I can make that work Smile.

My most pressing WIPs should be finished today, the baby things are almost finished (though I have until Feb.), and the afghans have to wait for cooler weather.


Sherry

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