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Re: Tunisian gauge

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Stitchboard Admin message #256
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 25, 2014 at 6:51:49 PM

Sherry,

Ah, I see! What a fantastic idea, to measure with your gem calipers.

It's certainly important and I've always wanted to know exactly where they were measuring to get those sizes!

Yes, that makes plenty of sense! I never thought of that, but you're absolutely right. To be accurate, all swatches would have to be exactly the same dimensions. And yes, it does sound dull!

But certainly a necessary evil.

That's the perfect way of looking at it...it is knowledge gained!

If you don't mind a suggestion, I'd say to work down to the I hook size swatch...since everything is substantially larger, working down will seem like less work! If you work up to the L size with the I hook, it will seem like more work, if that makes sense.

Mmmm, your hot pockets sound delish!

I'll be there for dinner!

(Okay, this might take a few days, LOL.)

Wow, 1 1/2 weeks away is very close! Hope all goes well!

BTW, did I mention that I'm now one set down on the mountain of dishcloths?

Melanie (cat slave and Official Feline Can Opener) =^.^=
~~~~~
I'm a beading, knitting and crochet addict. If that means I'm admitting I have a problem, then I admit to nothing. Please refrain from helping me.

Member since:
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Posts: 575

BetwixtTheStitch message #257
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 26, 2014 at 8:30:36 AM (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #1)

Melanie,
Well I couldn't remember where I put the calipers when I packed my jewelry tools away, so I haven't been able to find them yet.
I definitely want to measure them, though I'm pretty certain about the size being the shaft.

GMTA again.

I had the same thoughts on working down, since if say a K hook uses more yarn to get the same dimensions, then an even smaller hook would use even more than that.
So I started with a K hook that I'm working to P hook demensions, and I'll go from there.

What I especially love about working with the larger hooks is that I can do it without my reading glasses.

Which makes it a whole lot easier to watch a little t.v. at the same time.

Come for dinner any time, you'll be welcome.

Great thing about those pockets, 1 lb. of ground beef made a dozen large ones, feeds more people than just making hamburgers.

Yay! A visible dent in your WIPs list is always encouraging.

Sherry

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Stitchboard Admin message #258
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 26, 2014 at 11:03:17 PM (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #2)

Sherry,

I hope you can find the calipers soon! I have calipers, as well...what I have is compactly small, made of metal, a bit heavy, unfortunately...I originally bought it for carrying around to measure beads (sometimes I see chunky costume jewelry on clearance, and many of the beads are perfect for beading around). Unfortunately, I can never remember where it is.

Of course, that's not something I'd be using frequently. (And obviously, I don't carry it around...too heavy, sigh.)

Awww, I'm glad we're thinking alike, and I'm glad you realized about working to the same dimensions! That's so important to know!

I have the same trouble re: watching TV while crocheting. My reading glasses prescription is no longer correct, and it's very hard to look up at the TV and then look down, too. But you're right...with larger hooks, it works much better!

Thanks...awwww, wish I could! I've bought the frozen hot pockets, but I bet yours are so much better!

LOL, and they can't put nice company into that little box, unfortunately!

I agree...it's wonderful to have a little bit less to do on those WIPs, especially the gifts. I want to get back to playing!

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BetwixtTheStitch message #259
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 27, 2014 at 9:19:03 AM (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #3)

Melanie,
Mine are metal too, brass I think, but IIRC they only go up to about 50mm and not too heavy to carry in my purse if need be.
I got them in a set with a loupe and some other tools in a nice leather case, but now I can't seem to find the set.

Has to be around here somewhere.

Even if they could put good company in that box, it's not enough to feed them.

My boys would have polished off a box each, and been scrounging for more food.
Making the dough takes awhile, so I was telling her she could use the frozen dough too, if she wanted.

So in between everything else, I started a throw for my niece using RH Super Saver and the P hook. I have to say that I just love the way it's coming out, Royal blue is a teensy bit thicker than some of the other colors, and I kind of think it looks more like a bulky knit.

Sherry

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BetwixtTheStitch message #260
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 27, 2014 at 11:25:01 AM (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #4)

Melanie,
Good news, I found them.

So I measured the shaft of the hooks and was correct in my assumption. The interesting part is that when I measured the actual hook, they were a bit larger.

For instance the Q hook had the 15.5mm shaft with a 19mm hook. This means that the actual loop made is larger than it should be (which I've always suspected).
I've always tightened the loop onto the shaft of the hook, but with the larger hooks, it's more "obvious".

Sherry

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Stitchboard Admin message #261
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 27, 2014 at 10:07:27 PM (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #5)

Sherry,

Maybe we have the same calipers, then!

GMTA strikes once more!

Did you find the whole kit, or just the calipers? Hope you found the entire kit! What a neat thing to have a loupe and other useful tools in there.

LOL, I'm sure those hot pockets are so tasty, you're right, there wouldn't be enough food for good company.

Is the dough a special recipe (guessing it is)? Or is there some kind of dough that could be bought ready-made for that, to save preparation time?

The throw sounds really nice and I bet that will go fast, too! Plus it will be nice and extra warm with TKS.

Love that it looks like a bulky knit, too...win-win all the way around!

That's interesting about the hooks being larger - as you know, the other brand we've discussed has hooks that are the same size as the shaft, so that might actually make for a different gauge altogether...

If I can find any of those hooks that survived the flood, I'll have to test them to see how similar the gauge is (have to find the calipers, too!). I can't test with TKS, as I'm guessing they're not afghan hooks, but I may have some "regular" hooks that survived.

Do you think the difference with the Q hook is so obvious because the hook is so much larger than the others? I can imagine there might be less of a difference between hook and shaft with the brand that has the smaller hooks.

If it is different from brand to brand, then that makes gauge even more critical! Unless it's something where gauge doesn't matter, of course.

Wow, the things still to be learned...pretty cool!

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BetwixtTheStitch message #262
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 28, 2014 at 8:54:07 AM (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #6)

Melanie,
I found the whole kit.

I bought it for the loupe and calipers, I do love the colored gems.

I do have my own sourdough recipe made with my homemade starter, but there is a frozen dough that's been around since I was a kid. It's called Rhodes, and comes in loaves or rolls, it's what my mother bought.
There are others nowadays, but I've never tried any of them.

You're right about the Q being so noticeable because of the size. For instance the K hook is only 0.5mm larger than the shaft.

We definitely need to get measurements on the other main brand. Do you have some of both brands to do test swatches with? I know I don't have any.

I have the results of the first yarn usage experiment;

To make a 7" x 7.5" swatch with the P hook took 25.7g of yarn, which translated to 141.75 feet.
The same size swatch with a K hook took 31.4g yarn, translated to 173.2 feet

That's a difference of 31.45 feet
So using a larger hook does use less yarn.

Should I go on and make more swatches to compare with other sizes?

Also. I haven't quite finished compiling all the info from the different swatches into something that makes sense.
I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to take pictures, the ones made with the smaller sizes would have to be pinned down to get a pic, they just stay rolled up.

Sherry

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Stitchboard Admin message #263
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 28, 2014 at 10:35:36 PM (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #7)

Sherry,

Woo hoo!

So glad you found the whole kit! That's got to be very, very useful for so many things!

I'm thinking maybe I'll suggest to hubby that we try the dough and make hot pockets someday! Because I'd like to make a more vegetarian version. Though I wouldn't mind chicken or turkey...but it would be nice to have less (or no) cheese (lactose intolerant, argh) and maybe rice and veggies.

The ones from the store usually have cheese and often some kind of meat or poultry, but no rice.

Your sourdough recipe sounds fantastic, though!

If I had the time to devote to it, I'd make a dough instead of buying one, but for now it's got to be a purchased dough. I've heard of Rhodes, BTW...usually see the coupons in the Sunday papers. I don't think I clip them, but they're always around, so I could do that next time they're offered.

Hubby does like to try things...he made egg rolls, but baked, not fried. They were delish! I'm more of a cook from boxes, bags, etc, kind of cook...he'll do more from scratch.

What a tremendous difference that is between Q & K hook to shaft measurements! I wouldn't think they would be that different. Seems to me it would change the gauge a lot.

I'm not sure what I still have yet on the other brand. After I said what I did about still having them, it occurred to me today that my crochet hooks in that brand were in one of those decorative metal Bailey's containers - a really nice one - and IIRC, that was on a bottom shelf, and it all got flooded.

Now I remember having to take everything out of there, all wet and rusted.

Whatever was salvaged is probably packed up somewhere.

Thinking of perhaps buying a small set from JoAnn's. It will probably be faster that way.

Wow...what a huge difference in yarn usage! 30 feet is quite a bit. It sure does pay to use a larger hook! I wonder if that would hold true for most stitches...my guess is it does.

If you have a burning question, I'd say to continue, but it sounds to me like you've not only done a pretty decent and fairly scientific experiment, the idea is that larger hooks maximize the space the yarn takes up...which is pretty cool to know!

Sounds like you've made a darned good start at compiling some pretty useful info!

Hmm, have you got any T-pins? T-pins on a mat or (my secret) a thick, folded towel works wonders!

You can position them as you like and photograph away!

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BetwixtTheStitch message #264
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 29, 2014 at 8:42:23 AM (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #8)

Melanie,
That's the great thing about making them yourself, you can put whatever you like in them.
My hubby doesn't care much for cheese either, so I can replace it with picante or something.
I've put all kinds of things in them, and they always disappear quickly.

I was thinking I may have to do that as well, buy one of the sets from Jo Ann. Not sure when I'll be able to get over there again.

Well I've pretty well answered the question for myself, though I might give it a try with TPS and TSS, just to see if it holds true.

I don't have any T-pins, I have straight pins though. I pinned them to a piece of foamboard, while they were wet, and allowed them to dry to get my initial measurements. But as soon as I unpinned them to weigh them, they curled right up.

Pretty sure now that this is why most tunisian patterns are done with natural fibers, at least it can be steam ironed.

Worsted weight acrylic just isn't really suitable for use with the smaller afghan hooks.

Sherry

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Stitchboard Admin message #265
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 29, 2014 at 7:59:03 PM (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #9)

Sherry,

Exactly...that's why I'd love to have homemade hot pockets!

They've got to be so much better than store bought.

LOL, I bet they disappear quickly!

Same here...JoAnn's is usually a planned trip, though I do have to get there fairly often to get those coupons scanned to stay on their mailing list, ugh.

I should try the other hooks again, though, because I wonder if those would be more comfortable for me at times. The design of the Boye afghan hooks is perfect for Tunisian, but for regular crocheting, it seems the other design used to work a little better, since the hook didn't protrude quite as much. I'm guessing there's little to no size difference between hook and shaft with those, though would have to find the calipers to verify that, once I can get the hooks (and find the calipers)!

Oh, yeah, that's true...TPS and TSS may be entirely different! They may work up with a different gauge altogether!

Argh, that's awful about how they curled up! And how frustrating!

That probably is why most Tunisian patterns use natural fibers, sigh.

Totally agree with you on the WW acrylic with the smaller afghan hooks. Just making one dishcloth with the size H hook was not only taking forever, but the stupid thing curled and curled.

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Posts: 575

BetwixtTheStitch message #266
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 30, 2014 at 9:30:40 AM (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #10)

Melanie,
I usually just have to plan my trips to Jo Ann around the weather and the need for crickets,

but I've got more going on right now with the great grandbaby due any day, and my niece coming to stay.

I am thinking I should try out those other hooks, measure them, etc. since that's what is widely available now.

I did my TKS dishcloths with the K hook, they don't curl quite so much. The L might have looked nicer, but I like the thickness of it with the K for a dishcloth.

I just wonder how well the blocking works though. I just can't imagine garments made that thick and stiff, even if it is natural fibers.

Sherry

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Stitchboard Admin message #267
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 30, 2014 at 7:48:59 PM (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #11)

Sherry,

Oh, yeah, you've got your plate very full! I think a trip to JoAnn's should definitely wait.

(Unless there's a last minute dire need for crickets, perhaps?

)

I think the other hooks are only sold in JoAnn's...that's the only place I've seen them. But then, we have Michael's, JoAnn's and Walmart. They may be available at other big box stores...I don't know. I'm sure you can also find them somewhere online.

The K hook sounds good for a dishcloth...far better than that awful H hook! I feel that the cotton - at least, the cotton I use - is a tiny bit thinner than acrylic. Maybe it's my imagination, but I feel that way!

That's an interesting question...what happens with blocking TKS garments? I would also think they'd be much too thick and stiff, and yes, even with natural fibers.

One dishcloth finished for set #2.

Haven't worked in any ends yet for the first or second set.

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Posts: 575

BetwixtTheStitch message #268
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 31, 2014 at 9:10:28 AM (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #12)

Melanie,
Well we certainly can't let that poor lizard go hungry, can we?

And I'm in dire need of more of that Tardis blue yarn.

Well I've only been going to Jo Ann, because they have the best yarn selection, so that would explain the fact that it's the only brand I see anymore.

I know that the Sugar N Cream cotton is a bit thinner than the acrylic, and I did try different size hooks before I decided I liked the K hook best.

All I know for sure is that I won't be making any garments with the smaller hooks.

Yay, getting things done is so satisfying.

Sherry

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Stitchboard Admin message #269
Re: Tunisian gauge
January 31, 2014 at 10:01:58 PM (in response to BetwixtTheStitch message #13)

Sherry,

Gasp! Perish the thought of that poor lizard going hungry!

Crickets...must...have...crickets!

LOL, Tardis blue yarn! And the lizard will love it!

I'm jealous, LOL, since our JoAnn's is just a regular one and doesn't have a large selection. They don't have the very large afghan hooks, either. So they don't have a lot of yarn choices.

Thanks for confirming that the Sugar N Cream is a little thinner!

I'd thought so, but wasn't positive.

The K hook is a good size. I can say that for sure after trying that H hook!

I probably could have managed to get away with it with a slightly thinner yarn, say, a sport weight, but not a WW (or close to it).

Same here! I'm so glad you're doing this, and want to thank you for it, because you've saved me a lot of frogging on that sweatshirt bottom!

I would have originally worked with the H hook. Now I'm likely going with the P hook.

It is satisfying to finish things!

Still have the majority of the dishcloths to go, but it doesn't seem to be as daunting as it was before!

Member since:
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BetwixtTheStitch message #270
Re: Tunisian gauge
February 1, 2014 at 10:24:47 AM (in response to Stitchboard Admin message #14)

Melanie,
Ok, things have been a bit crazy around here so I'm just going to throw my initial findings up here, and decide later if I need to take pics and do a polished piece elsewhere.

I've been working with RH Super Saver worsted acrylic yarn.

The label says that the gauge for knit should be 17st x 24r to get a 4"x4" swatch with 5mm needles.
That's 4.25 st per inch and 6 rows per inch.

Crochet is 12sc x 15r for 4"x 4" with an I or 5.5mm hook
That's 3 st x 3.75 r per inch

Here's what I got with the different size afghan hooks:

I hook 5.5mm- 16.5 st x 22 r = 4" x4" or 4.13 st x 5.5r per inch
This works out very close to the knit gauge, but as we've discussed, is extremely tight with no drape. Suitable for toys, bags, etc.

J hook 6mm- 16st x 21 r = 4"x 4" or 4st x 5.25 r per inch
Still very tight with no drape, see above

K hook 6.5mm- 15.5st x 19 r= 4"x4" or 3.88st x 4.75r per inch.
See above

L hook 8mm- 14.5st x 16r= 4"x4" or 3.63st x 4r per inch
Now it's starting to have a little drape, suitable for scarves, afghans, etc.

N hook 9mm- 14st x 17r = 4"x4" or 3.5st x 4.25 r per inch
Better, but the hook is not widely available

P hook 10mm- 13st x 14r = 4"x4" or 3.25st x 3.5r per inch
This is closer to the crochet gauge, but off enough to be a problem with garments.
The fabric is thick, but soft and supple.

I think I'd like to compare the recommended gauge on some of the bulky yarns to see how different they are.

Sherry

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